Why should I not use HTML frames? [closed]

Question

I haven't used frames since 1998. They seem like a bad idea and in all my development I've never had a situation where frames were the right solution, or even a decent solution.

However, I'm now working with an internal web application written by another group and the entire site is built in a - header, left side menu, right side content - frameset.

For one, when VPN'd to my network I constantly get a "website.com/frames.html" cannot be found." error message. This doesn't happen when I'm on the internal network.

Second, the app has a built in email/messaging system. The number of unread messages is shown in the left side menu frame as "Messages (3)" but the count doesn't update as I read the messages. The developer told me since it was in a frame I needed to right click on the menu and 'Refresh'. Seriously????

So, my programming related question is, what reasons do you have for not using frames in a website?

Answer 1

Although they solved a problem at the time they were created (updating part of a "page" while keeping in place a non-updating part), framesets were criticised in terms of usability pretty much from the start, as they break generic functions of the browser, such as:

• bookmarking, and copy-and-pasting URLs to share
• printing the page as displayed on the screen
• reloading the page: since the URL has generally not changed, you will often be taken back to the site's homepage or default frameset; manually reloading some frames is possible, but not obvious to the user
• back and forward buttons are ambiguous: undo/redo the last frame change, or take you to the last time the URL bar changed?

The heaviest burden of avoiding framesets - including the same content on every page - is trivial to solve if you are using any server-side language to generate your HTML, even if all it provides is a "server side include". Unlike framesets, a server-side include could occur anywhere on the page; building a site with a server-side scripting language or templating system has other obvious advantages too.

There is still an advantage to being able to update small areas of the page without reloading the entire content, which can be achieved via AJAX. This sometimes leads people to create interfaces with all the problems of framesets outlined above, but that is hardly an argument in favour of framesets. Again, a site built with well-designed AJAX functionality can achieve things which framesets don't even begin to address.

Answer 2

One good reason to avoid frames today is they have been deprecated in HTML 5: Chapter 11 Obsolete features

11.2 Non-conforming features

Elements in the following list are entirely obsolete, and must not be used by authors:

[...]

frame

frameset

noframes

Either use iframe and CSS instead, or use server-side includes to generate complete pages with the various invariant parts merged in.

Answer 3

The #1 reason? Users hate them.

Even if they offered advantages in other areas (separation of code, application design, speed etc) they are part of the user interface. If users don't approve, don't use them.

Answer 4

Frames were vaguely useful when you had a static web site, to avoid repeating navigation menu in all pages, for example. It also reduced the overall size of a page.

Both these arguments are obsolete now: sites don't hesitate to serve fat pages, and most of them are dynamically built so including such navigational parts (or status, etc.) has no problem.

The "why" part is well answered above, partly by your own question (you hit a limitation, although it can be overridden with a bit of JS).

Answer 5

My number 1 reason not to use frames is because they break the bookmark (aka favorite) feature of browsers.

With the technology that exists today, frames have become obsolete. But if your legacy project still uses them, you can make the messages update with some ajax.